College of Engineering, Computer Science & Construction Management and the Engineering Student Success Center
students, ecc, campus, pronto, advising, resources, college, questions, support, connect, cucumbers, chico state, class, provide, years, major, marco polo, advisor, services, garden
He-Lo Ramirez, joshuah whittinghill, Jen McKee, Teresa Hernandez, Introduction Music
He-Lo Ramirez 00:00
Heytanayem nikki yam sa He-Lo nikki Mechoopda Maidu. Hello everyone. My name is He-Lo and I’m a Mechoopda Maidu. We acknowledge and are mindful that Chico State stands on lands that were originally occupied by the first people in this area, the Mechoopda. And we recognize their distinctive spiritual relationship with this land and the waters that run through campus. We are humbled that our campus resides upon sacred lands that have sustained the Mechoopda people for centuries, and continue to do so today.
Introduction Music 00:27
Teresa Hernandez 00:57
Hello everyone, welcome back to our podcast first generation wonder money. Today we have a special guest as another one of our resource episodes, so excited to be able to share some more information with every with all our listeners with everyone that tags them today. So once again, we are first generation one of many, our mission is to create an archive of discussions with and about first gen first generation student experiences in and out of the classroom. We hope to continue raising awareness and understanding provide voice for students and alum as well as present resources or faculty, staff and students working for and collaborating with first generation students. So again, I cannot do this alone. And you’re probably very familiar with my co-host by now joshuah whittinghill. Hey Josh, how are you today?
joshuah whittinghill 01:54
Oh, I’m doing well, Teresa. Thanks for the wonderful intro one more time. And I was I was sharing with Teresa and another meeting we had earlier today that we missed out on our podcast planning meeting this week. And it was like God, there’s a part of me missing this week, because it’s become this wonderful relationship time for us to hang out at least once a week. Sometimes it’s three, four times a week depending on what we’re doing. But But I was like, I really missed something. what’s what’s missing from my day? So I’m glad we’re back together again.
Teresa Hernandez 02:24
Yes, and with a special guest. Whoo.
joshuah whittinghill 02:28
Yes. And to go right into another great episode, as we are recording a number of them to provide information about resources at CSU Chico, for current faculty, staff and students as well as prospective students and colleagues that may come to campus. And whether people out there in other campuses also who are working on creating some of the similar type of resources, can then reach out to our guests or utilize some of the information they have as well, because Chico State is not the only campus doing things in higher education. Wouldn’t that be weird? There was only one campus, only one campus.
Jen McKee 03:12
Plus more. Logistics a little easier. But otherwise,
joshuah whittinghill 03:18
I guess the idea of equity would be very different. In that case, if you only had one campus, but you know, we only have 23 in the system. And you can say that laughingly because it is the largest system in the United States, as far as you know, one system of campuses working together. So jump right into our traditional quote. Of course, self disclosure. I didn’t have quotes ready for the day today. And so our guests, Jen McKee, from the College of Engineering, Computer Science and construction management, aka ECC. She was she was so wonderful and gracious to provide us with a couple of quotes that, that she likes and abides by. And after eliminating a few we came up with two that she said, Oh, those those two are really good, right? And so the first one is from Edward Bulwer-Lytton. And I may have pronounced it correctly, but that’s only a one in 100 chance, so I probably didn’t pronounce it correctly. But and I’m not sure who Edward is, is exactly but Edward shares with us his quote, good humor is the sunshine of the mind. And of course, that is wonderful in these times. I think people are finding humor in different ways, in different reasons. And, and despite certain situations and circumstances. And it’s always been sort of a good message right about trying to find humor in things and, and especially I know, for me, I’ve been able to hopefully, at least I feel like I have developed more of a humor about myself or towards myself to be a little bit kinder that’s being, you know, looking and laughing at things I do and laughing at myself, for different reasons, has been great. Because I do spend a lot of time by myself, like most of us, we are alone a lot in general in life. So laughing with myself has always been helpful, and then pick me up. And the next one gets a little bit more specifically into then even some of the work that we’re doing and how we support students and some ways that are connected to one of the buzz words or things that become has become popular in the last 10 years or so in higher education, extremely of growth mindset. I worked with actually a EOP, Education Opportunity Program intern this last two weeks to develop a workshop on growth mindset. He presented it yesterday, his name is Tony Xiong. And he did a wonderful job on on comparing and so growth mindset and fixed mindset and really helping students in the workshop to understand where they’re at, and how they can do some of their own things to move forward, while also asking for help. And so this quote comes from Maya Angelou. And it is, if you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t change it, change your attitude. So thanks, Jen, for reminding us about those things about being fun and laughing and then also what we can do to be accountable in our own lives.
Teresa Hernandez 06:25
Yes, awesome. Thank you for that, Josh. And thank you, Jen for assisting us with those quotes. So we mentioned your name, but who are you? So it’s my pleasure to introduce our guests for today’s episode, Jen McKee. So Hello, everyone. We’re joined by Jen McKee today and she is the College Advising and Retention Specialist (CARS) for short for the College of Engineering, Computer Science and construction management, also known as ECC. She also coordinates the ECC Student Success Center. She has over 14 years of campus experience and has earned both her Bachelor’s in Social Science and Master’s in political science from CSU Chico. In her free time, she loves to hike Upper Park with her family, curl up with a good book, cook a new recipe or pretend to have a green thumb and her garden. Hi, Jen, welcome. Thanks for joining us today.
Jen McKee 07:15
Hi, thanks for having me. See, the pretend with the green thumb is very, very key.
Teresa Hernandez 07:21
I added that to mine. But I don’t even have a plan to have as a proof because they’re just gone.
joshuah whittinghill 07:31
And I was wondering, because because I love gardening and have things and this year, we have had this wonderful extension of sort of warmth and heating. And I had tomatoes coming off the plants even at Thanksgiving this year. Yeah. So you say pretend though, but But what do you get in your garden? What did you have in your last garden?
Jen McKee 07:47
So tomatoes were a big hit. We had a huge successful crop come from Costco of all places for starts. And same Josh, we finally had to pull them because they just kept growing and growing and growing and growing no matter how much we cut them back. And yet they weren’t ripening because they weren’t getting enough sun kind of in the afternoon. So we finally had to say, Okay, I think we’re done with the Winter Garden and start to start to prep everything for for this next next growing season. So cucumbers were a big hit, a lot of herbs.
joshuah whittinghill 08:20
Jen McKee 08:20
And yes, it kind of was a huge project to just get our backyard in order for us to start growing. But we’ve got excellent soil in our backyard. So I am looking forward to kind of this next season now that we’ve gone through the first year of trials and tribulations and figured out what worked and what didn’t work and how many cucumbers I can possibly eat in a season as well. So
joshuah whittinghill 08:43
Yes, the cucumbers went crazy this last year, it seemed like also luckily, one of my kids enjoys cucumbers and she would just eat them as I would go out and go I’m gonna get a cucumber. Wait, that cucumber gone. Oh, I guess someone ate it. But yeah, and and and you know, it seems like we were just picking those things during the summer all that but also, you only have two months, two months from now right in the beginning to middle of March, you’re gonna want to start getting stuff in there. And I say that every year and then it’s like April 13. And I’m like, Oh, I guess I need to put stuff in the ground because I forgot to but yes, that’s good.
Jen McKee 09:16
Seeing how well everything grew. I was like oh yes, we need to start earlier. So I’m looking forward to kind of still being in this virtual environment because it does allow for a little bit more of attending of the garden through throughout the day which has actually been kind of a nice break when I need to get outside to go and plant something in the garden.
joshuah whittinghill 09:36
Jen McKee 09:36
Nature for a minute and away from my computer screen.
Teresa Hernandez 09:39
joshuah whittinghill 09:41
Teresa Hernandez 09:41
When you when you are having computer screen time and you are in your virtual world. Can you tell us a little bit about what your role is that you’re doing on campus?
Jen McKee 09:49
Absolutely. So I have been on campus as I mentioned for, as Teresa mentioned for a little over 14 years in various aspects, but in the last year You’re a transition to this position, the college advising and retention specialist. And I this creation was kind of formed for all of the colleges around campus to provide some better resources and opportunities to connect kind of our academic affairs world and our student affairs world and really putting student needs at the focus and trying to kind of fill some of the gaps that maybe we have in some of our college and advising experiences throughout campus. So really trying to evolve our advising, services and and kind of different ways that we can support students and trying to bring some of those services into, let’s be honest, the 21st century, so meeting students where, excuse me where they’re at. As the college advising and retention specialist, I also have been fortunate to kind of oversee our ECC Student Success Center. We also call it the ESSC. And this was a center that was created a number of years ago really designed for first and second year students in our engineering major specifically, to provide some better advising and mentorship and tutoring support. With some additional staffing and some additional funding, we’ve really been able to expand with those services to not only just first and second year students, but really to anybody within our college, as well as all of the 11 majors that fall underneath the College of ECC. So we’re trying to kind of build up the support and resources in both the ESSC. So kind of helping coordinate those efforts. Michele Mittman is another advisor that works in that center that helps with our efforts part time. But then also having that that other hat of the the cars representative which kind of pulls me in, in in certainly related adventures, but kind of also has me doing some other things outside of the ESSC as well. That should answer kind of my role on campus. But
Teresa Hernandez 11:56
Oh yeah, you sound like a super, honestly, it sounds like I’m excited to hear a little bit more to you. But it sounds like you’re really a central person, especially when it comes to students within this major, a key resource to be able to know about and have access to as well.
Jen McKee 12:09
Absolutely. That’s what I hope.
joshuah whittinghill 12:12
Yeah, and it is great because we were able to have Kylee Sharp, right, the cars from the Humanities and Fine Arts on already. And then we did get to speak with the Business Student Advising Services, a couple of advisors came from there, Jenn Duggan and Nicole Gager. And so so it’s it’s sort of this thing, and I was talking to all the cars were able to actually join in a student training that I put together over the winter break. And it was fun, because I have this have this thing I tell my kids when they go by when they go ride their bikes to leave, and I go, Hey, remember, cars are real. And now I was joking that hey, on campus, hey, students, CARS are real, remember, and they’re here to support you. And they’re doing great things. So so it was really fun. And so so the CARS we can see, if you’ve listened to in a previous episode, CARS have all have a very similar focus of their work. But can you give us any maybe a couple of specifics of what your program does to support the students? Because I think we, we were going to ask and talk about like, who utilizes your services? But I think you’ve kind of touched on that a little bit. It’s all the students who are taking courses within ECC, not just majors, but anybody taking a course there. So then what is it that you actually provide them?
Jen McKee 13:32
Absolutely. So kind of in the framework of the ESSC, we are really trying to develop some one stop shop resources within our center to support students as they connect potentially to faculty advisors within our colleges, if they’re trying to navigate their their major if maybe they don’t know who to connect to, to maybe connect their coursework to careers, we can kind of help have those conversations about kind of what are you learning in the classrooms? How can we translate that and get them connected to things like Career Services, we also can really do some targeted and intrusive advising where we might get referrals from a faculty member or another, maybe a teacher that’s teaching a GE class for one of our majors in the College of ECC, and we can really follow up and see how can we best engage that student back into maybe their classes, or perhaps it’s getting them connected to resources, like, you know, maybe let’s talk about dropping a class or planned educational leave or really kind of trying to again, provide that one stop shop environment so that we can really holistically advise students and get them connected to the right resources or services for our majors within the College of ECC. So our services certainly can be utilized by the students in in our major and that’s really kind of our primary focus, but certainly having now this CARS representative in each college We can now provide a little bit better referrals to other colleges or majors or departments to get students connected to a real person instead of just oh yeah, you do this and fill out this form and, and good luck, it’s really providing that personalized referral. And that follow up and really making sure you know, as well that students are getting connected to the right people. That’s often what I found in this last year of working in this role is a lot of times students don’t even know where to ask or where to go. And so providing this ESSC Center as a little bit of a more approachable office and support system sometimes can really be that avenue for students to get the correct question or get their answer. We do have faculty advisors in the College of ECC as well as we do run mandatory advising and every every spring semester for students in our major, but oftentimes students need to talk about, you know, advising, and what should I take in my schedule? And how do I graduate in the timeframe that I want? What are the requirements that I have left? What can I take over the summer, some really more complicated. You know, hey, I want to study abroad, or I want to pursue a double major, or I don’t know if this is a major for me, a lot of these questions can be really stressful and produce some anxieties and students, and oftentimes, they will try and reach out to a faculty member who is not only an advisor, but is teaching as well and has a lot of other things on their plate, and may not be the best equipped to have some of those conversations if they don’t necessarily know all of the support or resources or majors on campus. Alright, so we’re trying to kind of support faculty advisors in that way to provide a little bit better resource for kind of more more students that need that that more holistic advising approach, but also really provide that kind of open access and you know, a little less intimidating person to kind of come and utilize the services, then we will run tutoring out of the ESSC. We right now are trying to coordinate how we’re going to do that. But we hope to centralize our tutoring efforts within our College of ECC through the ESSC. And right now we’re really just kind of trying to focus on how do we better support the advising initiatives and resources that are happening within the within the college and then certainly helping faculty be better equipped with some of the tools and resources that we’re using on campus as well.
Teresa Hernandez 17:27
Perfect, perfect. If we have some of those students who kind of fall into one of those situations, I have those questions that you just mentioned, what would be your suggestion for how can they access your services? Or what would be the best first step just to get in touch with someone to ask?
Jen McKee 17:41
Absolutely. So we are certainly, you know, we don’t ideally like to be on campus, we’re still operating in this virtual environment. And so students can always schedule zoom appointments to meet with us, we do a lot of advising even over email, as well as phone, how the campus is also piloting a communication tool called pronto, which is coordinating with Blackboard Learn, which is really awesome. So we’re looking to expand those efforts where we can really kind of meet students where they’re at whether it’s you know, texting, you get an answer, we kind of try and roll something like that out so that students that when they have a quick question can maybe text, an advisor or a pure or a student leader that we have kind of in the ESSC. Traditionally, though, we Zoom is tends to be a popular option, as well as kind of advising emails tend to be popular with students as they’re kind of on the go. And what’s nice is they can schedule those appointments right off of our ESSC homepage. So right off the ESSC homepage, which I’m sure will share the link in these podcasts. But right off the homepage, there is both myself and Michelle’s picture as well as a link directly to our schedule that’s always up to date. And and really integrated with our outlook calendars. So students can certainly schedule appointments that way, and can kind of help connect with us.
joshuah whittinghill 19:05
Oh, gosh, that is awesome. And also, if you see me laughing, and you said that you want to know why I’m laughing? And it’s nothing. It wasn’t it wasn’t it was with you. And in fact that I was in the middle of texting students through pronto on my phone, because I have a class that meets at 12:30. And I heard back from some people and information on getting your vaccine, that it might be a 30 minute process. And mine is at noon, during the recording today. And luckily it’s just right around the corner from where I’m at, but, but I was like, oh students, I have this thing. And all of a sudden, boom 16 people Oh, no problem. Go ahead. We’re gonna start class 10 minutes late. And I’ll let you know when I’m back in there like Oh, awesome. All right. Thank you. So then pronto funny technology user errors. I set up pronto, I’m telling students use pronto. This is gonna be awesome for us, right? And then a whole week and a half went by and I thought, wow, nobody’s using pronto. I sent some messages out, but nothing was coming back and I went, that’s, that’s weird. It’s supposed to give me notification or whatever. And then I went, oh, maybe I should check and see if notifications are turned on your console. Of course, they were turned off. And there was and and then there was, as I went into it, I’m like, Oh, look, they had been sending each other back and forth messages the whole week and a half. And there was over 65 messages of just a bunch of them texting back and forth with questions and answering questions and helping each other with what they were doing. And then this past Sunday, prior to us recording right now, I woke up, it was Sunday morning, and it was about, you know, eight o’clock, and a student had sent me a pronto question about class. And before I could even text back three other students were texting him with answers of where to go find the assignment inside of Blackboard, how to submit it, what questions to answer for their review questions that we’re going to be talking about. And then, and then by the next hour and a half goes by, there was over 27 students who had chimed in with different questions and thoughts. And so it was amazing. What pronto is already doing and can do for us as instructors, and advisors, and staff and in connecting with students also. And then I and I always tell them, do it. I used to use a different app, the remind app, and I would send out things like that, you know, like I’m like, wait, I’m awake, it’s 12:30. It’s almost one o’clock in the morning. I’m just gonna text students that hey, just thinking about you. You know, because students, a lot of them are awake at that time, they tell me. And when they when they send me emails, it says 2:35 am and submitting, you know, things to submitting assignments two days before they’re due. But it’s at one o’clock in the morning, someone is up. So I sent one about I sent one a couple of nights ago around midnight. Hey, just thinking about you all looking forward to class and what you have to say about our questions that are reading on diversity, and equity and inclusion. And a few students like Oh, all right, I’m awake now to what are you doing? So it’s been a great, it is wonderful.
Jen McKee 22:06
Love it. And I have to say, working virtual has been a really interesting experience. Because, you know, I think we fell into the I have to work Monday through Friday eight to five, because that’s standard business hours. And yet the second we went virtual, it was understanding that most students do not operate in that Monday through Friday eight to five. So it’s been really freeing I think as as me in my professional life to really meet students where they’re at, you know, I had a kid at home that I was trying to manage school for her while while trying to you know, maintain a full time work schedule. And that often meant getting on the computer at 8pm after she went home and working until midnight or 1am. But to be honest, you know, I would sometimes send out emails that late sometimes I’ve used the delay emails and nice little feature of Outlook. But to be honest, I got a lot of responses at 11 o’clock at night because yeah, it’s it’s very true that students are often doing, you know, doing things in the evenings and having pronto or a tool like that. I know a lot of our students use discord as well. But having a tool where peers can help peers and you know, a little bit more of an informal network has been really an eye opener, not an eye opening experience. But yes, we need this type of technology and in the world that we live in, that are looking for kind of immediate results, he wants you to get correct information kind of in the hours that they need those answers. And oftentimes, if you can’t give a response kind of right away in the time that they need it, you know, the moment has passed, you know, as a student really gonna wait until 8am to send an email. No, they’re not they’re going to send it when they need that answer. And certainly the more that we can respond and be, you know, be be that person that can provide that resource on the other side is absolutely true. I mean, I found myself turning a little bit more into a college student these days, you know, eight to five business isn’t as as conducive to how I work, I work better at night. And I’ve always been more of a night person, I think I just pushed myself to be a morning person for the last 15 years. So it’s been really nice to kind of to meet students where they’re at and for me to also feel really productive as a professional staff member in the in the peak hours that work best for me. So a really awesome thing. And I’m really looking forward to exploring that more because I think it’s a tool that students use or can use and they’re use that kind of the social aspects that comes from class and I think it provides a way for students to to be able to get over those awkward Hey, Zoom, do you want to set up a study session, it’s hard to do on a zoom session. So pronto provides a little bit more of that informality, but still allows some really great resources to get shared between students and faculty and staff and so and so forth. So love to hear that you’re using it and are really excited and ECC to incorporate that a lot more into not only our classes, but even you know, getting connected to advising resources and other resources on campus.
joshuah whittinghill 25:07
Yeah, that’s amazing. I’ve been joking. And I even told class last week when I was teaching the course, and I said, you know, if we could all meet, like, from 10 o’clock to midnight, I’d move class to then, you know, that’s my, those are some of my peak hours, you know, I’ve just always been that way. And even working eight to five. And those days, I would come home, do things with the family for three, four hours, and then they usually end up going to bed and getting tired. And I’m thinking around looking around going, Oh, 9:30 10:30, I’m ready, let’s go. And then I would just get going on other things. So it is it is fun. Right. So that leads us sort of into wrapping up the episode we we just had an unsolicited, you know, recommendation of really utilize pronto. And and if you’re you know if your campus as it, look into how you can implement that for your classes, but we have now other recommendations. So, Jen, what is your recommendation for today? Because we were laughing and talking about it a little bit earlier. So this is great.
Jen McKee 26:04
Yeah. So one of I think, for me personally has been a really great outlet is the app, you can find on any of the you know, Apple stores or whatever, Marco Polo, which a group of four four girlfriends that I actually met in college working for summer orientation shoot, it’s almost been 20 years ago. Um, but we kind of reconnected through Marco Polo. And what Marco Polo is, is it’s essentially a way that you can leave video voicemails for lack of a better, you know, I guess a better explanation of what it is. But it’s really nice that the four of us specifically have been able to kind of see more of the day to day of our lives, we’ve really been able to see, you know, we’ve been able to talk about some really, I guess, things that are affecting us, you know, how is parenting in COVID? We were really sorry, my friend’s husband’s a police officer. So what does the Black Lives movement look like? What is being a police officer in this time, it was really interesting to be going through these very important social conversations and having an outlet with women that I really respect and getting those various perspectives and really getting to see more of the day to day of our lives and be able to share that in a timeframe that’s conducive to us. You know, kind of joking, I’m a night person so I would be often catching up on my you know, 15 Marco Polo from the day of a conversation and then I would chime in, but it’s been really awesome to connect with them more in who would have thought that being virtual actually allowed us to connect a little bit more on a day to day basis. And it’s been a really awesome way for myself to communicate with my mom who lives in Costa Rica, she’s been able to live some leaves some really awesome kind of Marco Polo’s are these videos for my daughter to teach her some basic fundamentals of Spanish or to show where she is on the beach. So it’s been really awesome to have not only somebody’s voice to carry through this time, but somebody’s face and their facial expressions, and just to, you know, I watched a friend basically be pregnant and welcome a baby girl in that time. And it’s really funny, and fun to see that in more of the day to day. So I highly recommend Marco Polo is a great way to connect with other people and connect with your friends. You know, more than just a text and more than just a phone call. It’s providing kind of that, that video and that love and support from afar. And I I’m so incredibly thankful that my friend turned us on to that back in March and that we’ve really been able to keep up with it with this whole year.
joshuah whittinghill 28:39
That’s great. I I love that to what you shared and I think it’s it really shows this cross generational use of technology because I only learned about it because of my 10 year old daughter at the time when we first got sent home at Spring Break last year and with within a day, her and her friends like we got to get Marco Polo set up, we’re gonna get Marco Polo set up and and parents were going around Marco, Polo, Marco, Polo. And they’re like, they’re they’re asking us what are you doing? What are, it’s so weird. And then we explain the game to them. And then they said, Oh, okay, but anyway, it’s been great. And that’s one thing on Marco Polo that’s really, really fun is also all the different filters. So you can change your you can change your voice, you can make yourself sound different ways you can have some of the visual things, you can add icons and emojis and things. So it is really a fun app that definitely thanks for sharing that one. I was gonna share another one since our what was one of our quote was about humor and laughter. And if you’re not familiar with Anthony Anderson, he’s an actor and he is on the show Blackish. But in the last couple of years or so now, maybe even three or four years he’s been the host of the show. So my recommendation is to watch to tell the truth. If you’re not familiar with to tell the truth. It’s been around since the 60s but there’s a there’s a group of people that come on and three different people come on stage and they say, I am a Shark Hunter. And the next person says, I am a Shark Hunter. And so all three of them say it. And then the celebrities on the show, there’s like three or four and, and they usually funny and comical, and they ask questions to try and figure out who the real Shark Hunter is. And then after a round of questions with like, you know, 6, 7, 8, 9 questions, then they vote on who it is. And then they reveal will, the real Shark Hunter, please stand up, you know, so, but Anthony Anderson is funny on the show. And to go along with this, this generational use of technology and just connection of talking about parents and kids, his mom is on the show with him as a co-host. And she kind of sits off at the front of the stage in her in her chair. And she chimes in every now and then it has comical quotes and phrases and but what they did in the last season, they created a statue of her. And it’s a bust of um her name. They call her mama on the show, but her name is Doris. And so they they give out the award to the celebrity who gets all of the answers right during the show. And they get to take home their own Doris, and they take it home with them. So that’s a great show. There’s a lot of laughing. And some interesting things that people do, as far as who are on the show have different like sort of intricate or eccentric type, or professions or hobbies or things like that. So I recommend that show. And there are like I said, our episodes from the 60s you can find on YouTube, if you want to look back to that. But I have to say I just personal I don’t I wasn’t alive in the 60s. So they’re not as funny to me. But But anyway, Teresa, do you have any recommendations for today? You know,
Teresa Hernandez 31:44
I don’t today, nothing specific. But I will just always suggest as I always do to our listeners to make sure you do any small little thing within your day to make you happy, make you feel good. And don’t put too much pressure on yourself to be productive either. And just make sure that you’re also taking time for yourself. What that looks like is definitely up to you. There’s no blueprint. Yeah. All right. Well, with that listeners, we really appreciate you tuning in today. Super excited for having had an opportunity to get to me. Jenna, Jennifer McKee, again, the ECC Advisor so if you have any questions, definitely recommend that you contact them. Her team, contact her visit their website, the information is going to be in the show notes so you have easy access to it. You could also look up on the ECC on the homepage, the Chico State website if you want to get in contact with someone or start somewhere. And again, thank you so much, Jen and josh for your time today and I hope this resource of our listeners find really beneficial and I’m sure they will.
Jen McKee 32:54
Thank you for having me really appreciate it.